Good Bad or just Ugly
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Post by Good Bad or just Ugly on Jan 18, 2006 9:13:13 GMT
So what do you people out there think of the proposals by DCFA to restructure the Saturday leagues and create a new reserve team league. This will be for DPL reserve teams and possibly Snr League teams who have reserve sides. Good idea or not?
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An interested party
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Post by An interested party on Jan 18, 2006 16:56:14 GMT
Where can we get more information about this restructuring?
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Post by in the know on Jan 18, 2006 18:11:04 GMT
ask away
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Post by not so sure on Jan 18, 2006 18:15:09 GMT
so will this league be full of reserve teams only?if thats the case sum reserve teams are very poor n sum better than the actual 1st team,so i think it will turn out 2 be a bad idea.in the fact that as it is there is a promotion-relegation situation.i cant c sum reserve teams wantin to get d1cked evry week without the chance of a weaker league the nxt year.
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Post by in the know on Jan 18, 2006 18:48:12 GMT
Name 14 reserve teams which might make the league. 1/Holt Res now name the other 13
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Post by Denzil on Jan 18, 2006 19:15:48 GMT
Any team who play in the DPL or above and probably the Snr Div, who have a res team in the Dorset Saturday league's will in aall probability be placed in the new res league if it's incorporated. There will be no promotion or relagation from the league.
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Post by Me on Jan 19, 2006 11:57:57 GMT
Well thats junk.
There will be promotion/relegation, the new league will be on parr with the senior league.
The only time there will be none of the above is if no reserve team wins the league or come runners up.
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Post by Learn to read on Jan 19, 2006 12:38:20 GMT
There will be no promotion or relegation unless the sides first team are relegated. Its to alleviate the problem of congestion in the Snr lge of which 42% of the teams of clubs who play in the DPL or above, a fact which puts sides who wish to be promoted to the DPL at an unfair disadvantage. It will also stop reserve sides fielding 1st team players to strengthen the team and have an unfair effect on the final Snr league table. If a res team won the Snr lge they could not get promoted to the DPL so no real change there. Relegation I think would depend on how far adrift a team finished in the proposed res lge.
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Post by Me on Jan 23, 2006 8:58:44 GMT
Arse and talking out of it spring to mind. There will be relegations into the 1st division if a reserve team wins the first division. There will be promotion if a reserve team gets relegated. Do you not understand english ??
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Post by Townie on Jan 23, 2006 9:52:30 GMT
When was the last time a DPL or Dorset Combination reserve team won the League it must be at least 20 years since Dorchester Reserves won it. The people who winge about reserve sides being strengthened from time to time with first team players should think of all the other weeks when they have to field a weakened side because their better players have been called into the first team often at the last minute. A reserve team manager never can be sure until the last minute of his team. You do not hear the moaners when in cup competitions reserve sides find it difficult to field a side due to players having played for the first team and are cup tied.If Dorchester, Hamworthy and Bridport reserves have to drop out what 3 other Teams can take their place in that league that has the ground requirements for that league. To have no promotion or relegation will mean the one or two stronger teams will keep winning it and most of the others will be also rans, The Wessex Combination is ran this way and nowhere near as good a league as the DPL it is almost a youth league.
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Post by hmm on Jan 23, 2006 10:09:11 GMT
Sounds like a good idea in theory. Reserve leagues for reserve teams. May seem strange if you aren't used to it, but it's quite common elsewhere. Lets not forget what reserve teams are for. If ressy teams have a problem with this, just enter the league as a stand alone side. Nothing worse than being beaten to the title by a reserve team thats been filled with first teamers.
The one thing that concerns me is the difference in quality between the reserve sides. Reserve leagues work well at a higher level because most teams have reserve sides. You can then have various reserve leagues all containing teams of similar quality. Lower leagues like Dorset are not full of big clubs. This will mean there will be few reserve teams with huge differences in standard (potentially). Not sure how well this will work in practice.
Will this format be implemented properly, i.e. Dorch Reserves, Ham Reserves etc. forced to enter the reserve league, or is it to be some half ars*d approach to try to account for the above problem? Whatever happens, I'd say a lot of people will be upset. DCFA have made a right pigs ear of this by letting all these reserve teams in in the first place. Going to be hard to sort out this far down the line!
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Post by hmmm on Jan 23, 2006 10:23:16 GMT
Townie, There are pros and cons to being a reserve team. I personally feel the pros outweigh the cons, but this is irrelevant anyway. The rules with players are different for reserve teams. This is why most serious leagues have reserve leagues, so as all teams in each league have the same advantages or disadvantages.
Yes Wessex Combination is run this way, no it isn't as good as the DPL... so what.... it's a reserve league. We all know what reserve teams are for. As I said above, if reserve teams want to be like first teams, they should consider entering as a stand alone side.
I've said many times on this site that I feel any league is devalued by allowing reserve sides to enter. It just doesn't happen at any decent level for the reasons above.
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Post by Townie on Jan 23, 2006 14:00:30 GMT
What you have not answered hmmm is who is going to take Dorchester, Hamworthy United and Bridports Place place in the DPL, and have the required ground conditions. Hamworthy only got promoted last year because the team that should of gone up Chickerell did not have them. Allendale were tossed out of the league for the same reason. I suspect the proposers of this support Clubs that either do not have reserve sides, or not very good ones. At least at the present a reserve side will find its own level.Nobody said reserve teams want to be first teams. HOW often are first teams put out as reserve tams? three or four times a year at the most and this is more than counterbalanced when they have to put out weak sides due to first team call ups. LEAVE IT AS IT IS to change it would be a backward step.
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Post by actually on Jan 23, 2006 15:03:18 GMT
The DPL is not changing, it's a separate entity from the Dorset League.
The Senior League & Div 1 are the main ones that are changing, with the removal of all reserve teams of DPL clubs, and possibly those from Senior League clubs.
Clubs currently in Div 1 or lower with a reserve team will continue "as is" with their reserve teams remaining in Divs 2,3,4.
This will give a Reserve League of approx 16 teams and allow the Dorset League to condense to five divisions from the current 7, allowing a more streamlined approach without many problems of reserve teams winning promotion or not.
(I am in favour, in case you hadn't realised!)
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Post by actually on Jan 23, 2006 15:04:54 GMT
Also, forgot to mention the reserve league will be separate from the Dorset League structure so there will be no promotion/relegation from or to it as a rule - obviously from time to time it will be necessary if teams drop out etc.
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Post by Point on Jan 23, 2006 15:21:12 GMT
Whats the point in this? If you win this league you go NOWHERE! if you finish bottom you go NOWHERE! Seems to me this would become very boring and predictable, with the same team finishing top and the same team finishing bottom every season. Somebody please correct me if im wrong!
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Post by hmmm on Jan 23, 2006 15:42:11 GMT
What does it matter who will replace them? Who replaces teams that fold or get promoted to the Wessex League? My guess is they would be replaced by the same teams who would replace these maybe? If Dorset does not have enough teams who's grounds meet the requirements, they may have to consider a league with fewer teams, or relax the ground requirements. That though, is a seperate issue.
It's unfair having reserve teams mixed in with first teams. It's unlikely that the pros exactly match the cons 50-50 at the end of the season. In addition to this, you can get the situation where on the last day of the season, a reserve team can win the title, or prevent relegation, while thier first team are safe but cannot win anything in their league. Wonder if any first teamers will get fielded in the reserves? This is obviously unnaceptable, and is one of the reasons that most serious leagues do not permit reserve teams. Imagine if a club missed promotion to the Wessex in this situation. gets serious then as they'd lose on a bit of money (increased gate receipts, sponsorship etc.).
Ever wonder why Chelsea reserves are not in the Championship? It's not because they're not good enough. DCFA have tried to revive a poor league by allowing reserve teams to enter as a quick fix. They've basically admitted it is wrong by putting a limit on the amount of reserve sides permitted. I think you have to look at the purpose of reserve teams, i.e. players returning from injury, trialists etc. This does not really fit in with a competitive league.
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Post by hmmm on Jan 23, 2006 15:52:05 GMT
Point, The point is that it doesn't matter if a reserve team is used for what a reserve team is meant for. Admittely, the idea of signing on to play in a reserve team and have no intention of trying to get into the first team, is now a lot less attractive, but as mentioned before, that's not what a reserve team is for!
If more teams have reserve sides in the future, maybe at some point there will be more reserve leagues with promotion and relegation.
In the immediate future, this will be a step back as far as the quality of the leagues goes. I do believe that it's a better structure though, and will ultimately lead to an improvement.
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Post by Townie on Jan 23, 2006 16:09:22 GMT
Thank you actually for making the position much clearer
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Post by hmmm on Jan 23, 2006 16:15:59 GMT
No problem. It's only my understanding and opinions though, and I have noting to do with the DCFA. Ironically I'm signed for a reserve team, but not the first!
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